Difference between revisions of "Talk:EnduserFAQ"

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Why was the link the to Z-XML Sword Converter removed?
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==Discussion about FAQ==
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FAQ is for those end user questions which have been asked frequently in sword-support list or some other support forum. It is not for asking random questions. This discussion page is for meta-discussion about the FAQ, not for asking random questions.
  
http://joomla.zykloide.de/Joomla_1.0.10-Stable-Full_Package/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,21/
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Edit the FAQ only if you know what you are doing. Most of those questions which deserve to be there are there already. Give new proposals for the FAQ here (in this discussion page) first. Small factual or orthographical corrections are welcome without discussion.
  
http://www.bibleworkplace.de/content/view/1/4/
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Questions should be as general as possible. Names of programs, modules etc. should be given only as examples (preferably in the answer) unless the question/answer is strictly about a specific named subject and cannot be generalized.
--[[User:84.159.172.31|84.159.172.31]] 05:00, 24 June 2007 (MDT)
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I wondered why many other changes were reverted also. Some of them did enhance the quality of the FAQ.
 
  
I understand that we have to keep the FAQ as Frequently Asked Questions. It should not be Questions Which Someone Has Asked Once or Never Asked Questions Which Someone Wants To Answer Here. There are already some questions/answers there which are not very frequent. It makes the page more difficult to use for end users. All really Frequently asked questions are there.
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=== Module-specific questions ===
 
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From now on, if someone wants to add/remove a question, I suggest that we discuss it here in this talk page.
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Questions about Z-XML converter are not frequent. If it's included it could be inserted under general converter section (question about e-sword should be changed to be more general).
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-- Eeli Kaikkonen
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I don't remember seeing the Z-XML converter myself, but I would probably have removed it if I had. I apologize that I can't fully elaborate since I don't recall my particular objections to the Z-XML converter, but I didn't consider it something we ought to recommend that users use. (One way or another, it is NOT reasonable to consider it an End-User tool, and the FAQ, being for End-Users, is not an appropriate place to link to it.) I'll elaborate on my reservations if I get a chance to take another look at the program. In any case, we have a Zefania to OSIS converter that (IMNSHO) does a better job even though it's still a work in progress (but what isn't).
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-- Osk
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Some of the stuff I added was reverted and some removed. As a community process, I expect that some of that will happen. However, I didn't like that they were anonymously made. I suggest that we make our changes while logged in and add a brief comment to each edit.
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-- DM
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Where is the Zefania to OSIS converter? --[[User:84.159.195.26|84.159.195.26]] 12:33, 25 June 2007 (MDT)
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The recent OSIS converters I wrote are sitting [http://crosswire.org/ftpmirror/pub/sword/utils/perl/ here]. I'm still going to hold off on any major announcement for a couple of reasons: First, they still need a little work. Second, I don't want people flooding me with modules they created with these converters since I've already got everything I would consider posting converted (whether or not I've actually gotten it online yet).
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-- Osk
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Reverting some other's changes may possibly happen if someone copies the text, edits it and later commits it without checking first. We just have to be careful.
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Some wiki FAQs are meant to be edited by end users. That can confuse some users so that they add their questions here though the purpose is that the developers gather the proper questions. This whole thing would be much easier if we just required logging in. I don't see any reason why anonymous editing would be important. Well, I'm not logged in either...  --Eeli
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I put back in my changes. I'll also see if mediawiki allows us to have some pages require login. I don't know if that is something that we want to do. This page should be our "official" answers to "frequent" questions, not a place to ask questions.
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-- DM
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==Converting resources==
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a) e-Sword is closed source.  Technically, it is not a commercial program (The e-Sword license prohibits commercial distribution).  Some resources are commercially distributed, which is allowed by the license. Other resources are distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution Share-alike NonCommercial 2.0 license. 
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I agree. Questions and answers should be general. I noticed this myself but have done nothing for it. --Eeli
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b) I'd suggest having a page on converting to/from file formats, linked to from the FAQ.
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Change Q 2.1.5 "How do I convert e-Sword modules to Sword modules?" to "How do I convert material to Sword modules?"
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Then, on the page "converting file formats", list the various file formats, and either that the project does not support the conversion of material in the file format to Sword modules, or list the process/tool(s) that are used. 
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This is also a good point and more information about conversion tools would be good. --Eeli
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c) Between EULAs and licenses,it is hard for end users to know what can be legally converted, and what cannot be legally converted to other file formats.  [Project Gutenburg can be legally converted. BibleWorks resources can not be legally converted.  Z-XML resources can go either way.]. A simple statement such as "The EULA for BibleWorks prohibits format shifting.  The Sword Project supports Intellectual Property Rights, and as a consequence does not support the conversion of material for this program (BibleWorks) into a format usable by The Sword Project."  can be used for the different programs that people ask about.
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14:00, 12 July 2007 (MDT)[[User:Jblake|Jblake]]
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Would you like me to be "brave" and:
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* Create a page that addresses converting to/from various file formats;
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* Create a page that covers conversion utilities;
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* Create a page that addresses copyright, licenses, and EULAs;[[User:Jblake|Jblake]] 13:40, 17 August 2007 (MDT)
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Those all would be great. I think all extra material is useful. We can link them from the FAQ page. --Eeli
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:Started.  I just realized that my notes are on my Windows machine, which won't boot up.  :(  Ijust have to find out which of the CDs I have them backup on.  (This is when I need a program like "floppy drive cataloger, except for CDs and DVDs rather than floppy disks.)  [[User:Jblake|Jblake]] 15:56, 17 August 2007 (MDT)
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== Module-specific questions ==
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I just removed a question placed in the FAQ about why the Swahili Bible doesn't contain the book of Philippians. (I don't happen to know the answer, but I'll check into it.) Anyway, we should probably such module-specific questions out of the FAQ, even if it means creating another FAQ-type page for those questions. I know there are some questions currently address specific modules, but that's a fault in the questions themselves, which happen to address general issues by naming specific modules.
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-- Osk
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It might be good to have a question "How do I report a problem with a module". I think the right answer it to point them to Jira and file a bug under Modules. But that requires membership. Chris, if you don't mind, I'll leave this up to you, since you are the Module "Pumpkin Holder".
 
It might be good to have a question "How do I report a problem with a module". I think the right answer it to point them to Jira and file a bug under Modules. But that requires membership. Chris, if you don't mind, I'll leave this up to you, since you are the Module "Pumpkin Holder".
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===Accented texts===
 
===Accented texts===
I suggest we add an entry for accented texts, it has been asked every now and then.
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I'm working on a couple of good texts (MorphGNT & Tisch from morphgnt.org) which I hope to post tonight. I know accented LXXes exist, but I don't know their quality or look forward to merging with our existing database. I also don't know of accented copies of most of our other Greek texts, so we'd still be stuck telling people that what they see is all we have. -- Osk
"Why can't I see accents in Greek texts?"
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"The modules in our main repository do not have accents. There are some accented modules in Kleinpaste's repository (see http://crosswire.org/wiki/index.php/Module_Repositories)."
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I think this renders the question/answer unnecessary. Let's see if people ask about the nonexisting accents when those modules have been public for some time. --[[User:Eelik|Eelik]] 08:00, 10 October 2007 (MDT)
  
Better solution would be to make all modules accented, I still don't understand why they are not. But this not the place to discuss about that:) [[User:Eelik|Eelik]] 01:51, 11 September 2007 (MDT)
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===Can I publish a text in Sword format?===
 
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Every now and then someone asks if it's possible to publish a work in our format. It has been asked at least about translations and commentaries. We could give a short positive answer in FAQ and give some links to helpful pages. It is so-and-so if this an end user or developer question but mostly the people who ask this seem not to be developers. --[[User:Eelik|Eelik]] 08:00, 10 October 2007 (MDT)
 
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I'm okay with adding that question, provided the response is something more along the lines of "Because the modules don't contain accent data."
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Of the 5 Greek modules offered in the CrossWire repository, Kleinpaste's repository contains an equivalent to only one (Tisch > TischUP). Tisch isn't even the most popular Greek module, so the answer would essentially come back to "Because the modules don't contain accent data." I'm also uncomfortable directing users to modules that may not be thoroughly tested.
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The reason for which we don't have accents available on all of the Greek modules is because the problems in adding them are complex. First, they're simply not all available with accents. Some texts with accents are not freely distributable. Texts with accents are not necessarily as reliable as the ones we have currently, so we would need to evaluate text quality. And the merger texts with different feature sets (e.g. an accented text with a text that contains Strong's numbers and/or morphology) isn't necessarily trivial--especially if the texts have different versifications.
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-- Osk
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Not telling about alternatives sounds patronizing to me. Of course it is reasonable to tell that they are not so well tested and may contain errors. But after that anyone can think for himself if that module is good enough for him. Kleinpaste's repository has also LXX so plural form is proper here.
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How about something like this:
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"Because the modules don't contain accent data. There are some accented modules in Kleinpaste's repository (see http://crosswire.org/wiki/index.php/Module_Repositories) but they are not necessarily thoroughly tested and may contain errors." [[User:Eelik|Eelik]] 09:03, 14 September 2007 (MDT)
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No, he doesn't have an accented LXX. He has his own (accented) TischUP module paired with the same (unaccented) LXX module as is hosted on CrossWire. -- Osk
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Are there accented etexts, freely available for distribution and of sufficient quality/authority that we can put it up? If so, lets identify it/them and see on sword-devel whether anyone can solve the merge issues. I think it is do-able. As for this question, I think we should put up the answer that we don't have any at this point but are working toward finding appropriate texts. -- DM
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I'm working on a couple of good texts (MorphGNT & Tisch from morphgnt.org) which I hope to post tonight. I know accented LXXes exist, but I don't know their quality or look forward to merging with our existing database. I also don't know of accented copies of most of our other Greek texts, so we'd still be stuck telling people that what they see is all we have. -- Osk
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Revision as of 14:00, 10 October 2007

Discussion about FAQ

FAQ is for those end user questions which have been asked frequently in sword-support list or some other support forum. It is not for asking random questions. This discussion page is for meta-discussion about the FAQ, not for asking random questions.

Edit the FAQ only if you know what you are doing. Most of those questions which deserve to be there are there already. Give new proposals for the FAQ here (in this discussion page) first. Small factual or orthographical corrections are welcome without discussion.

Questions should be as general as possible. Names of programs, modules etc. should be given only as examples (preferably in the answer) unless the question/answer is strictly about a specific named subject and cannot be generalized.


Module-specific questions

It might be good to have a question "How do I report a problem with a module". I think the right answer it to point them to Jira and file a bug under Modules. But that requires membership. Chris, if you don't mind, I'll leave this up to you, since you are the Module "Pumpkin Holder".

As to the naming of specific modules, I agree that the questions should be more general. It might be reasonable to list specific ones in the answer if they are a frequent subject of the question.

-- DM

Accented texts

I'm working on a couple of good texts (MorphGNT & Tisch from morphgnt.org) which I hope to post tonight. I know accented LXXes exist, but I don't know their quality or look forward to merging with our existing database. I also don't know of accented copies of most of our other Greek texts, so we'd still be stuck telling people that what they see is all we have. -- Osk

I think this renders the question/answer unnecessary. Let's see if people ask about the nonexisting accents when those modules have been public for some time. --Eelik 08:00, 10 October 2007 (MDT)

Can I publish a text in Sword format?

Every now and then someone asks if it's possible to publish a work in our format. It has been asked at least about translations and commentaries. We could give a short positive answer in FAQ and give some links to helpful pages. It is so-and-so if this an end user or developer question but mostly the people who ask this seem not to be developers. --Eelik 08:00, 10 October 2007 (MDT)