Difference between revisions of "Talk:CrossWire KJV"

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[[User:David Haslam|David Haslam]] ([[User talk:David Haslam|talk]]) 08:54, 14 March 2017 (MDT)
[[User:David Haslam|David Haslam]] ([[User talk:David Haslam|talk]]) 08:54, 14 March 2017 (MDT)
== Cambridge spellings in our Oxford based module ==
I've been comparing in detail the differences between the '''Cambridge''' and '''Oxford''' editions of the '''KJV''', using a number of sources. My work confirms that we need to correct a small number of minor textual discrepancies in the SWORD module. There's a residue of Cambridge spellings in our '''KJV''' module. [[User:David Haslam|David Haslam]] ([[User talk:David Haslam|talk]]) 03:18, 15 March 2017 (MDT)

Revision as of 09:18, 15 March 2017

Spelling issues in Blayney's 1769

Though modern editions of the KJV claim to be essentially the same as the 1769 standard, Blayney's work still contained some archaic spellings and some inconsistent spellings. Most of these were unified amd corrected in works such as the Scofield Bible that was used as the Reference Text for the earlier editions of the KJV module. Though there is much to be gained by examining the Blayney's 1769, it would be a retrograde step to revert the KJV module to his spellings.

For further details please visit my user page: User:David Haslam/Benjamin Blayney's 1769 KJV.

David Haslam 10:37, 25 January 2016 (MST)

I don't think it'd be a backward step. But if so, maybe we fork the KJV as what we have now is not the 1769 Blayney, but rather Old Scofield? There is considerable value in having an accurate text for the Blayney edition. --Dmsmith 11:11, 25 January 2016 (MST)
Rather than forking the module (which would lead to a lot of extra work), I would prefer to use OSIS markup to record spelling (and punctuation) variants in the various printed editions 1769 to present. David Haslam 04:26, 27 January 2016 (MST)
It's not as if we don't already have another related module which has become outdated compared to the KJV, namely the KJVA module with the Apocrypha included. The Protocanonical Books for that should ideally have been made to track the KJV module in terms of updates. David Haslam 04:29, 27 January 2016 (MST)

catchWord and osisRef with @s[word]

Not sure why this got removed?

  • Add osisRef to catchWord (for now at least, mainly for single keywords).

David Haslam 13:01, 29 January 2016 (MST)

Reinstated for 2.10 – David Haslam 09:11, 30 January 2016 (MST)

List of ordinary words that are not found with all lowercase in the KJV main text

This list may not be complete.

The following 41 ordinary words are not found with all lowercase letters: (i.e. these capitalised words are not names)


This list can be used for fine tuning the filtering of a complete words list in order to tabulate names that occur in the KJV text.
My big list now includes words that are in the canonical Psalm titles. David Haslam (talk) 14:39, 5 February 2017 (MST)

List of ordinary words that are also names

This list may not be complete.

The following 44 ordinary words in the KJV are also names:[1][2][3][4]



  1. That is, they are found capitalised mid-sentence.
  2. Some of these are symbolic names for Christ.
  3. This list currently excludes uppercase words.
  4. Names in the KJV that are ordinary words outside the KJV will not be listed.

David Haslam (talk) 09:56, 11 February 2017 (MST)

List of words that contain the EN DASH (U+2013)

The following is a counted list of the 259 different words in the KJV containing the EN DASH character used as a hyphen:[1][2]

Count	Word
00015	Abed–nego
00002	Abel–beth–maachah
00001	Abel–maim
00003	Abel–meholah
00001	Abel–mizraim
00001	Abel–shittim
00001	Abi–albon
00004	Abi–ezer
00001	Abi–ezrite
00002	Abi–ezrites
00003	Adoni–bezek
00002	Adoni–zedek
00004	Al–taschith
00001	Allon–bachuth
00002	Almon–diblathaim
00001	Aram–naharaim
00001	Aram–zobah
00003	Ashdoth–pisgah
00001	Ataroth–adar
00001	Ataroth–addar
00001	Aznoth–tabor
00002	Baal–berith
00003	Baal–gad
00001	Baal–hamon
00005	Baal–hanan
00001	Baal–hazor
00002	Baal–hermon
00003	Baal–meon
00006	Baal–peor
00004	Baal–perazim
00001	Baal–shalisha
00001	Baal–tamar
00004	Baal–zebub
00003	Baal–zephon
00001	Baalath–beer
00001	Bamoth–baal
00001	Bar–jesus
00001	Bar–jona
00001	Bashan–havoth–jair
00001	Bath–rabbim
00011	Bath–sheba
00001	Bath–shua
00001	Beer–elim
00001	Beer–lahai–roi
00034	Beer–sheba
00001	Beesh–terah
00001	Ben–ammi
00027	Ben–hadad
00001	Ben–hail
00001	Ben–hanan
00001	Ben–oni
00001	Ben–zoheth
00001	Bene–berak
00002	Bene–jaakan
00001	Berodach–baladan
00003	Beth–anath
00001	Beth–anoth
00003	Beth–arabah
00001	Beth–aram
00001	Beth–arbel
00007	Beth–aven
00001	Beth–azmaveth
00001	Beth–baal–meon
00002	Beth–barah
00001	Beth–birei
00001	Beth–car
00002	Beth–dagon
00001	Beth–diblathaim
00066	Beth–el
00001	Beth–elite
00001	Beth–emek
00001	Beth–ezel
00001	Beth–gader
00001	Beth–gamul
00002	Beth–haccerem
00001	Beth–haran
00001	Beth–hogla
00002	Beth–hoglah
00014	Beth–horon
00003	Beth–jeshimoth
00001	Beth–jesimoth
00001	Beth–lebaoth
00031	Beth–lehem
00010	Beth–lehem–judah
00004	Beth–lehemite
00002	Beth–maachah
00002	Beth–marcaboth
00001	Beth–meon
00002	Beth–nimrah
00001	Beth–palet
00001	Beth–pazzez
00004	Beth–peor
00001	Beth–phelet
00001	Beth–rapha
00002	Beth–rehob
00003	Beth–shan
00006	Beth–shean
00021	Beth–shemesh
00002	Beth–shemite
00001	Beth–shittah
00001	Beth–tappuah
00004	Beth–zur
00001	Caleb–ephratah
00001	Chephar–haammonai
00001	Chisloth–tabor
00001	Chor–ashan
00004	Chushan–rishathaim
00002	Col–hozeh
00001	Dan–jaan
00002	Dibon–gad
00006	Ebed–melech
00003	Eben–ezer
00001	El–beth–el
00001	El–elohe–Israel
00001	El–paran
00001	Elon–beth–hanan
00001	En–eglaim
00003	En–gannim
00006	En–gedi
00001	En–haddah
00001	En–hakkore
00001	En–hazor
00001	En–mishpat
00001	En–rimmon
00004	En–rogel
00002	En–shemesh
00001	En–tappuah
00001	Ephes–dammim
00003	Esar–haddon
00002	Esh–baal
00002	Evil–merodach
00003	Ezion–gaber
00004	Ezion–geber
00001	Gath–hepher
00004	Gath–rimmon
00001	Gittah–hepher
00001	Gur–baal
00001	Hamath–zobah
00001	Hammoth–dor
00002	Hamon–gog
00002	Havoth–jair
00001	Hazar–addar
00004	Hazar–enan
00001	Hazar–gaddah
00001	Hazar–hatticon
00004	Hazar–shual
00001	Hazar–susah
00001	Hazar–susim
00001	Hazazon–tamar
00001	Hazezon–tamar
00001	Helkath–hazzurim
00002	Hephzi–bah
00002	Hor–hagidgad
00001	I–chabod
00001	I–chabod’s
00002	Ije–abarim
00001	Ir–nahash
00001	Ir–shemesh
00012	Ish–bosheth
00002	Ish–tob
00001	Ishbi–benob
00001	Ittah–kazin
00001	Jaare–oregim
00012	Jabesh–gilead
00001	Jashubi–lehem
00001	Jegar–sahadutha
00001	Jehovah–jireh
00001	Jehovah–nissi
00001	Jehovah–shalom
00002	Jiphthah–el
00001	Jonath–elem–rechokim
00001	Jushab–hesed
00010	Kadesh–barnea
00001	Kedesh–naphtali
00001	Keren–happuch
00005	Kibroth–hattaavah
00001	Kir–haraseth
00001	Kir–hareseth
00001	Kir–haresh
00002	Kir–heres
00006	Kirjath–arba
00001	Kirjath–arim
00002	Kirjath–baal
00001	Kirjath–huzoth
00018	Kirjath–jearim
00001	Kirjath–sannah
00004	Kirjath–sepher
00002	Lahai–roi
00001	Lo–ammi
00003	Lo–debar
00002	Lo–ruhamah
00001	Maaleh–acrabbim
00001	Magor–missabib
00001	Mahaneh–dan
00002	Maher–shalal–hash–baz
00004	Malchi–shua
00001	Me–jarkon
00001	Melchi–shua
00004	Merib–baal
00001	Meribah–Kadesh
00001	Merodach–baladan
00001	Metheg–ammah
00001	Migdal–el
00001	Migdal–gad
00002	Misrephoth–maim
00001	Moresheth–gath
00001	Nathan–melech
00015	Nebuzar–adan
00003	Nergal–sharezer
00020	Obed–edom
00010	Padan–aram
00006	Pahath–moab
00001	Pas–dammim
00001	Perez–uzza
00001	Perez–uzzah
00001	Pharaoh–hophra
00001	Pharaoh–necho
00004	Pharaoh–nechoh
00001	Pi–beseth
00004	Pi–hahiroth
00003	Poti–pherah
00002	Rab–mag
00002	Rab–saris
00008	Rab–shakeh
00001	Ramath–lehi
00001	Ramath–mizpeh
00001	Ramathaim–zophim
00019	Ramoth–gilead
00001	Regem–melech
00001	Remmon–methoar
00002	Rimmon–parez
00002	Romamti–ezer
00001	Ru–hamah
00001	Samgar–nebo
00001	Sela–hammahlekoth
00001	Shear–jashub
00004	Shethar–boznai
00001	Shihor–libnath
00001	Shimron–meron
00001	Shoshannim–eduth
00001	Shushan–eduth
00001	Succoth–benoth
00001	Syria–damascus
00001	Syria–maachah
00001	Taanath–shiloh
00001	Tahtim–hodshi
00001	Tel–abib
00001	Tel–haresha
00001	Tel–harsa
00002	Tel–melah
00003	Tiglath–pileser
00003	Tilgath–pilneser
00001	Timnath–heres
00002	Timnath–serah
00001	Tob–adonijah
00002	Tubal–cain
00001	Uzzen–sherah
00001	Zaphnath–paaneah
00001	Zareth–shahar


  1. This list includes such words as found in the canonical Psalm titles.
  2. A few of these words may also appear elsewhere in the Bible without the EN DASH.

Similar names in the KJV study notes

Here's a counted list of the 88 such names:

Count	Name
00001	Abel–mizraim
00001	Abel–shittim
00001	Abi–albon
00004	Al–taschith
00001	Allon–bachuth
00001	Aram–naharaim
00003	Ashdoth–pisgah
00002	Baal–meon
00002	Baal–perazim
00001	Baalath–beer
00001	Bamoth–baal
00002	Bath–sheba
00001	Bath–shua
00001	Bath–shuah
00001	Beer–lahai–roi
00002	Beer–sheba
00001	Ben–abinadab
00001	Ben–dekar
00001	Ben–geber
00001	Ben–hesed
00001	Ben–hur
00001	Ben–oni
00001	Berodach–baladan
00002	Beth–azmaveth
00001	Beth–eden
00003	Beth–el
00001	Beth–ezel
00002	Beth–nimrah
00001	Beth–shemesh
00001	Eben–ezer
00001	El–beth–el
00001	El–elohe–Israel
00001	El–paran
00001	En–hakkore
00001	En–rogel
00002	Ephes–dammim
00002	Esh–baal
00001	Gibeah–haaraloth
00001	Hamon–gog
00001	Hatsi–ham–menuchoth
00001	Havoth–jair
00001	Hazar–hatticon
00001	Hazar–susah
00001	Hazar–susim
00001	Helkath–hazzurim
00001	Hephzi–bah
00002	Ije–abarim
00001	Ir–nahash
00002	Ish–bosheth
00001	Ish–tob
00002	Jaare–oregim
00001	Jegar–sahadutha
00001	Jehovah–jireh
00001	Jehovah–nissi
00001	Jehovah–shalom
00001	Jehovah–shammah
00002	Jehovah–tsidkenu
00002	Kibroth–hattaavah
00001	Kir–haraseth
00002	Kirjath–arba
00001	Kirjath–arim
00001	Kirjath–huzoth
00002	Kirjath–jearim
00002	Maaleh–acrabbim
00001	Magor–missabib
00001	Mahaneh–dan
00001	Maher–shalal–hash–baz
00003	Merib–baal
00001	Meribah–kadesh
00001	Meribah–Kadesh
00001	Merodach–baladan
00001	Metheg–ammah
00001	Misrephoth–maim
00001	Moresheth–gath
00001	Obed–edom
00001	Perez–uzza
00001	Perez–uzzah
00001	Pi–beseth
00001	Ramath–lehi
00001	Ru–hamah
00001	Sela–hammahlekoth
00001	Shear–jashub
00001	Tahtim–hodshi
00001	Tiglath–pileser
00001	Tilgath–pilneser
00001	Timnath–heres
00001	Timnath–serah
00001	Zaphnath–paaneah

List of words containing a hyphen

The following is a counted list of the only 5 words in the KJV containing an ordinary hyphen:

Count	Word
00003	God-ward
00001	joint-heirs
00001	thee-ward
00003	us-ward
00003	you-ward

Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary

Of the 3609 words in the KJV that are proper names, only 2392 have entries in Hitchcock (two thirds of the total). David Haslam (talk) 14:35, 5 February 2017 (MST)

Eleven verses detected with a comma missing

Detailed analysis of the pattern Name Name has detected the following 11 verses that have a comma missing between the two names:

Location		Name Name
II Chronicles 16:1	Asa Baasha
II Kings 12:1		Jehu Jehoash
II Kings 13:1		Judah Jehoahaz
II Kings 14:23		Judah Jeroboam
II Kings 15:27		Judah Pekah
II Kings 15:23		Judah Pekahiah
Daniel 2:1		Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar
Jeremiah 52:30		Nebuchadrezzar Nebuzar–adan
Numbers 13:16		Nun Jehoshua
II Chronicles 12:2	Rehoboam Shishak
II Kings 16:1		Remaliah Ahaz

David Haslam (talk) 05:21, 6 February 2017 (MST)

These don't have a comma in Blayney. --Dmsmith (talk) 12:54, 25 February 2017 (MST)
Nor in Old Scofield. --Dmsmith (talk) 16:16, 25 February 2017 (MST)
To illustrate in more detail, here's one of these verses: (the others are similar)
Daniel 2:1: And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
The KJV departed here from best practice English punctuation. Many more recent printings have the comma inserted. David Haslam (talk) 09:53, 26 February 2017 (MST)

List of uppercase words in the KJV

This is a list of 40 uppercase words found in the KJV text:


Some of these are parts of multiword names. David Haslam (talk) 09:59, 11 February 2017 (MST)

Multi-word names in the KJV

There are several patterns that match multi-word names in which the two main words are capitalized:

  • Name Name
  • Name of Name
  • Name the Name
  • Name in Name
  • Name at Name

There are also some three word names, such as:

  • Lord Jesus Christ

Yet there are also names in which the major part of the name is not capitalized:

  • Isaiah 35:8: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
  • Jeremiah 16:21: Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.
  • Jeremiah 19:6: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
  • Lamentations 2:15: All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth?
  • Ezekiel 39:11: And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamon–gog.
  • Amos 5:27: Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.
  • Zechariah 6:12: And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
  • Acts 27:8: And, hardly passing it, came unto a place which is called The fair havens; nigh whereunto was the city of Lasea.
  • Acts 28:15: And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.
  • Revelation of John 19:13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

David Haslam (talk) 06:56, 14 February 2017 (MST)

Jer 16:21 should be Lord, not LORD. --Dmsmith (talk) 13:01, 25 February 2017 (MST)

Two suspect apostrophes in the apocrypha

A search of the DC books for the regexp [^s]\x{2019}\s gave two matches:

  • Sirach 8:1: Strive not with a mighty man’ lest thou fall into his hands.
  • II Maccabees 7:39: Than the king’ being in a rage, handed him worse than all the rest, and took it grievously that he was mocked.

Most online versions are the same. Both items look suspicious. They don't meet any grammatical rule involving possessives. Further research required. David Haslam (talk) 13:15, 14 February 2017 (MST)

I also think the first word in 2Macc.7.39 ought to be "Then" and not "Than". David Haslam (talk) 13:22, 14 February 2017 (MST)

Both verses would appear more correct if the right single quotation mark was replaced with a comma:

  • Sirach 8:1: Strive not with a mighty man, lest thou fall into his hands.
  • II Maccabees 7:39: Then the king, being in a rage, handed him worse than all the rest, and took it grievously that he was mocked.

cf. There are 80 matches in the DC books to the pattern ", being ". David Haslam (talk) 13:28, 14 February 2017 (MST)

Decided to make these changes. David Haslam (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2017 (MST)
confirmed against Blayney. --Dmsmith (talk) 13:02, 25 February 2017 (MST)

Hyphenated words in the KJV Apocrypha

There are only three hyphenated words in the deuterocanonical books, all place names:


But are there any other names in the DC books that ought to be hyphenated?

Phaath Moab
Pahath Moab

The spelling difference between 1Esd.5.11 and 1Esd.8.31 also needs to be checked.
cf. Pahath–moab occurs six times in the KJV. This is the only hyphenated name in the KJV that occurs with a space in place of the hyphen in the DC books. Note the case difference too. David Haslam (talk) 09:07, 19 February 2017 (MST)

Spelling: ax or axe ?

Another hapax legomenon to consider:

Baruch 6:15: He hath also in his right hand a dagger and an ax: but cannot deliver himself from war and thieves.

Should this be axe as some online versions have it? cf. The KJV has 13 instances of 'axe' and none of 'ax' other than this in the DC book. David Haslam (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2017 (MST)

Decided to make this change. David Haslam (talk) 01:15, 15 February 2017 (MST)
Blayney has ax. --Dmsmith (talk) 13:07, 25 February 2017 (MST)

Bipolar names in the DC books

Here is a counted list of the bipolar names (aka polynym) found in the KJV DC books:

00002	Antiochus Epiphanes
00002	Antiochus Eupator
00001	Judas John’s
00007	Judas Maccabeus
00001	Judith Holofernes
00001	Jupiter Olympius
00001	Massias Israel
00001	Pahath Moab
00001	Phaath Moab
00002	Ptolemeus Philometor
00001	Quintus Memmius
00001	Simon Chosameus
00001	Titus Manlius

I have excluded the pattern "Persians Belemus" found in 1Esd.2.16 which is really two names.
I have also excluded three locations where a punctuation mark was missing. David Haslam (talk) 10:07, 19 February 2017 (MST)

Replace list for Oxford Text Archive book names

This list of book names suffices to replace those in the file KJV.1060 downloaded from the OTA with proper OSIS Book Abbreviations:

Pss	Ps
Qoh	Eccl
Cant	Song
1Esdr	1Esd
4Ezra	2Esd
AddDan	PrAzar
1Mac	1Macc
2Mac	2Macc
1Thes	1Thess
2Thes	2Thess
Tit	Titus

In addition to the above, in order to match Versification=KJVA:

  • AddEsth must be reversified to start at 10.4
  • The note in SirP must move into Sir and the book SirP removed
  • EpJer must be reversified as Bar.6

The other books already had the correct book abbreviation. David Haslam (talk) 04:28, 12 March 2017 (MDT)

Oxford Text Archive - misled by the Complete Bible Genealogy site claims

I have removed this from the External Links section:


  1. according to Complete Bible Genealogy, this is actually the text for the Oxford 1769 Blayney edition, albeit the description has "Exact edition not recorded." It's the complete text for 82 books including the Apocrypha. The text format is TEI Lite. The text is without cross-refs or notes, apart from 6 explanatory notes for some DC books. It omits the canonical Psalm titles. It also omits the non-canonical colophons to the Epistles. David has converted the source text to OSIS XML.
  2. A comparison of the text with that of our KJV & KJVA modules has led me to the conclusion that the KJV.1060 download is NOT that of the Blayney Oxford Edition. It has too many differences and typos to be a reliable independent source. Based on its spelling inquire rather than enquire, it's actually derived from a Cambridge University Press edition. Even so, there are serious spelling errors among the typos.

David Haslam (talk) 08:54, 14 March 2017 (MDT)

Cambridge spellings in our Oxford based module

I've been comparing in detail the differences between the Cambridge and Oxford editions of the KJV, using a number of sources. My work confirms that we need to correct a small number of minor textual discrepancies in the SWORD module. There's a residue of Cambridge spellings in our KJV module. David Haslam (talk) 03:18, 15 March 2017 (MDT)